Cities 1.5
Cities 1.5
Economics and the City
In times of profound geopolitical turbulence - wars, trade shocks, energy insecurity, and climate breakdown - something unexpected is happening: while autocratic leaders double down on fossil fuels and climate denial, cities are stepping into the breach to create a different story. One of hope, resilience, and innovation.
Like wildflowers pushing through concrete, cities around the world are experimenting with new economic models that challenge the old orthodoxy of endless growth. They're turning away from Gross Domestic Product (GDP) as the sole measure of success and asking different questions: Are people housed? Are they thriving? Are we staying within planetary limits?
Featured guests:
Kate Raworth, Co-founder of the Doughnut Economics Action Lab (DEAL)
Leonora Grcheva, Cities and Regions Lead at DEAL
Giuseppe Sala, Mayor of Milan, Italy
Nkosindiphile Xhakaza, Executive Mayor of Tshwane, South Africa
Carola Schouten, Mayor of Rotterdam, Netherlands
Links:
Doughnut Economics in Local Governments: An Overview of Emerging Practice by Leonora Grcheva and Michele Vianello
Special Issue on Sustainable Prosperity in the 21st-Century City - the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy
Trump fossil-fuel push setting back green progress decades, critics warn - The Guardian
Resources for a better future: GDP - Resilience.org
Milan's Food Waste Hubs Network
CCU Challenge: Unlock the City’s Ambition of Becoming Fully Circular by 2050
If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website at https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/
Listen to the Cities 1.5 five-part miniseries “Going Steady with Herman Daly: How to Unbreak the Economy (and the Planet)" here: https://lnk.to/HDMiniSeries
Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and the C40 Centre, and is supported by C40 Cities. Sign up to the Centre newsletter: https://thecentre.substack.com/
Writing and executive production by Peggy Whitfield.
Narrative and communications support by Chiara Morfeo.
Produced by Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/
Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/
Music by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/
[theme music]
David 00:01
I’m David Miller and you’re listening to Cities 1.5, a podcast exploring how cities are leading global change through local climate action. [music ends]
[slow rhythmic music] If you walk through any city carefully enough, with your eyes open, there’s a moment when you see it: a crack in the pavement, a weed pushing through concrete. Something alive insisting on growing where the system said it shouldn’t. This season of Cities 1.5 is about those kind of moments. Because at this time of profound geopolitical turbulence, as wars, trade shocks, energy insecurity, and climate breakdown collide, something unexpected is happening. While autocratic leaders double down on fossil fuels, endless consumption, and climate change denial, cities are resolutely stepping into the breach to create a different story, one of hope, resilience, and innovation. [music continues then ends]
[melodic music] In our Herman Daly miniseries, we explored what some might call a radical idea, that the economy is not separate from the living world. It must operate within planetary boundaries, while meeting human needs. In our final episode of that series, we asked a crucial question: What do these new strands of economic thought look like in practice? The answer, increasingly, lies in cities. On our high streets, in local businesses, in our food systems, and crucially, in how success is measured and who it’s measured for. Across the world, local governments are turning away from reliance on gross domestic product, a blunt instrument that counts extraction, growth, and the resulting pollution as progress. Instead, they are turning toward new indicators that reflect reality. Indicators that ask, “Are people housed? Are they thriving? Are we staying within planetary limits?” [music ends]
[fast rhythmic music] We know that economies built on endless growth, fossil fuel dependency, and global exploitation are not strong, they’re brittle. And brittle things have a tendency to break. Cities understand this because mayors and residents feel the consequences first. And so, like wildflowers unexpectedly breaking through concrete, cities are experimenting. They’re testing new economic ideas, rewiring systems that were never designed to serve people or planet and they’re doing it faster than national governments ever would or could.
This season, we’re exploring what opportunities arise from the cracks in metaphorical urban pavement, and why, in an age of disinformation and authoritarianism, urban innovation and climate action are the most powerful tools of our resistance. [music ends]
[whimsical music] Later on in the episode, we’ll be hearing from three mayors who are putting new economic ideas into practice, rethinking what a good life for all looks like in their cities, and redesigning systems to center the needs of both people and planet. [music ends]
[slow rhythmic music] But first, we’re going to hear from a trailblazer leading the shift to sustainable prosperity in cities around the world. The Doughnut Economics Action Lab, or DEAL, aims to help create 21st century economies that are regenerative and distributive by design, so that they can meet the needs of all people within the means of the living planet. [music continues then ends]
Kate Raworth 04:27
So, the doughnut offers us a compass for 21st century thriving. It’s one way, it’s not the only way. It’s one way we could say, “What is it that our economies should be aimed at achieving?” And it’s two circles focused on what I would say is most important. First of all, leave nobody in the hole in the middle of the doughnut where people are falling short on the essentials of life. Leave nobody without the essential resources every person has a claim to, for food and healthcare and education and housing and energy, so that people can lead lives of dignity and community and opportunity. So, get everybody over this social foundation with enough resources to thrive. But when we aggregate that, and when we seek to meet not just our needs but also our wants, and these get amplified in consumer societies to be very large wants, we risk going over an outer circle, the outer side of the doughnut.
David 05:20
That was Kate Raworth, self-described renegade economist who developed the concept of doughnut economics and co-founder of DEAL.
[melodic music] Her colleague, Leonora Grcheva, is the cities lead at DEAL, working directly with cities to turn the doughnut from a framework into reality. She’s also the co-author with Michele Vianello of the article ‘Doughnut Economics in Local Governments’. An overview of emerging practice in the recently released edition of our journal, a special issue on sustainable prosperity in the 21st century city.
Leonora Grcheva 06:03
[phone rings] [whooshing] Leonora Grcheva, I’m the cities and regions lead at the Doughnut Economics Action Lab, and I’m calling from London. [handset clicks]
David 06:13
Leonora, thanks so much for taking the time to be with us today.
Leonora Grcheva 06:17
Happy to be with you, David.
David 06:19
Can you just talk at a very high level about the work of the Doughnut Economics Action Lab and, you know, its missions and goals?
Leonora Grcheva 06:28
So, we are an organization that was co-founded by Kate Raworth, who is the author of Doughnut Economics, and, really, our main mission is to support practitioners that apply the principles and ideas of doughnut economics into various sectors, so whether that’s businesses or government or grassroots organizations, the civil sector or local government. So, my role specifically is to support and empower those working in and with local governments that experiment with doughnut economics in various ways; in practices, in policies, in strategies and plans.
David 07:01
What are some of the places you work with?
Leonora Grcheva 07:04
Well, there are currently, I would say, a bit over 60 local and regional governments around the world that experiment with doughnut economics, and many more that have reached out to us kind of early exploring. Internally having conversations and, you know, dipping their toes in the water. But cities have included Copenhagen, Barcelona, Mexico City, Santiago de Cali in Colombia, Ipoh in Malaysia, Thimphu in Bhutan, Grenoble in France, Tomelilla in Sweden are just some of the cities that we’ve been working with.
David 07:40
Very interesting. It’s a very broad range of cities and geographies. Can you talk a bit about the principles, from your perspective, behind doughnut economics?
Leonora Grcheva 07:50
The way I see it and understand it, doughnut economics in its core brings together the need of economies to be operating within Earth limits with our recent knowledge on planetary boundaries that quantify these limits, and also adding kind of a stronger focus on human well-being. So, combining all of these things together into one doughnut-shaped visual saying that we should be reimagining what progress should look like in the 21st century, and that our aims should not be to strive for endless economic growth but rather to meet the needs of all people within the means of the living planet. And then to ask: What are the big shifts in thinking and operating that will get us there?
David 08:32
When people in cities and the cities themselves build their cities and consume things, the impact goes far beyond the cities to other places in the world, which to me means that cities who are working with you have to be thinking globally as well as locally. Can you talk a bit about how cities can address those impacts, and maybe if there’s a couple of good examples of actual action that is addressing ecological impacts, whether it’s on climate, biodiversity, resource use or anything else?
Leonora Grcheva 09:13
So, yes. So, this awareness of a broader impact is really a huge aspect of working with doughnut economics and a huge draw for many places. And it has particularly played out initially in cities developing new indicators, kind of new measures of progress. And the way that we’ve been doing it and we’ve been supporting cities to do that is by developing what we call a data portrait or a city portrait. And, really, it’s a visualized data mirror showing us how places currently doing across a range of social and ecological indicators compared to an ideal goal of where we want to get to. So, if you imagine, you know, the normal—the green, safe and just doughnut as the goal, the city portrait is what’s showing us how much we’re overshooting. So, very clearly visually showing us on the inner circle when people’s needs aren’t met and on the outer circle when we’re overshooting ecological boundaries. And what that means is that any one person can take a look at this sort of new measure of progress, this portrait and immediately see the whole picture and understand, “Wow! We’re really doing poorly when it comes to housing or when it comes to biodiversity,” and this big red wedge is immediately a signal that we’re in trouble.
And what we’ve built into this and of data portrait are the global impacts of places. So, we’re not only looking at what we call local aspirations, how people are doing in our communities, in our cities and how our local ecology are doing, but also how our action locally is impacting people elsewhere. And this has been an area of exploration for many cities, and especially for Global North cities that kind of traditionally over the centuries have relied on land, labour, resources and people from Global South regions in order to meet their local needs, but typically we keep kind of the costs and the real impact hidden. We have very little visibility of the real cost of our local actions. So, cities have been developing methodologies and ways to make this often unjust dependencies visible in their metrics so that then they translate it into their kind of decision-making processes and policies as well.
So, for instance, in Barcelona, they developed indicators, what we call global social indicators, demonstrating that 96% of all the resources consumed in Barcelona came from countries more precarious than Spain, and use those indicators to tell the story and take action and raise awareness on how Barcelona’s social wellbeing relies on burdens shifted in other more vulnerable places. Or places have also been developing indicators based on the planetary boundaries. So, measuring not just how much you’re reducing your carbon emissions, but what is your fair share of carbon budget in order to, you know, reach global agreements, to reach the Paris Agreement, to reduce your impact on other regions of the world that you need to achieve. So, through this portrait, typically even places that take a lot of climate action are still not near to where we need to be. So, that’s making these connections, this global impact visible, is often the first starting point of then translating into various local actions and policies.
David 12:43
[rousing music] If you’re walking through a city or a town that has really embraced the ideas behind the doughnut economics, what might that city feel or look like? How could somebody—a visitor, a resident, what might they notice that feels different if you’ve got a thriving doughnut-aligned city?
Leonora Grcheva 13:05
Well….
David 13:06
You’re smiling.
Leonora Grcheva 13:07
[laughs]
David 13:07
I have to tell the viewers, you’re smiling now, not just me.
Leonora Grcheva 13:10
I’m imagining. I went into a place of dreaming and imagination because, of course, that’s where this is still at. Most of the cities are huge and complex systems and change takes time. And most of the cities working with doughnut economics are in their first year or two of work, so, really, at a policy and plan making stage. So, when you walk around these places, you may see some projects but not feel a whole new atmosphere.
But if we are to imagine this city of the future, I think—well, for one, I think it would look very differently in different parts of the world, because it would be more in touch with a natural world that it’s built on and it would be based on the kind of materials of that region, on the flora and fauna that thrive there, on the climate and topography there. It would be a place that is slower and calmer where you would see how connections between people and with the living world around us are kind of encouraged through how public spaces are designed. It would be a place where you can hear birds singing and you can see green wherever you go. It will be a place of equality and of justice, where nobody lives in deprivation and where the benefits are distributed and people are helping each other through networks of solidarity. And it would have many of the pieces of the puzzle that already exist in so many places of the world, but just, yeah, combined in one place.
David 14:52
It’s an interesting vision because, in my view, a really great mayor is elected to create a city that is livable for everybody. That’s what people want. There may be immediate issues but in the big picture they want their city to be the best possible city it can be in its place and with its history.
Are there different challenges and opportunities in applying the ideas of the doughnut in Global South cities as opposed to Global North cities? And if so, how does DEAL work and approach that diversity of participants?
Leonora Grcheva 15:29
Yes. Well, through the lenses of doughnut economics, the starting point of Global South and Global North cities is very different. So, we know that the Global North cities have disproportionately higher responsibility for climate breakdown, while the Global South cities disproportionately are suffering the consequences. So, when we redefine how progress looks like through doughnut economics lens, we look at, you know, not only the future, but also the present and the past that brought us here. And we start—especially when we’re talking about these differences between different regions of the world, we challenge the traditional dichotomy of developed versus developing places. Because most countries and regions that are traditionally considered developed, like UK or US or Sweden or Norway, have massively overshoot their fair share of planetary boundaries, causing harms in other regions and based a lot of their development on unfair extraction. So, these differences that we can even visualize through portraits of different nations, through understanding them through this lens of doughnut economics, it means that for cities they have different starting points and very different responsibilities to act, and so they can take action differently.
David 16:46
It’s fantastic, the spread—the geographic spread of cities that are working with you. Does that give you hope that more and more cities are going to adopt the underlying values and principles of doughnut economics?
Leonora Grcheva 17:03
Being in this world has made me way more optimistic and hopeful because I’m exposed to an amazing community of people that are actually prioritizing the common good and the well-being of others and of the living world in their everyday lives. Not just in cities, but in communities and in various institutions in grassroots organizing. Doughnut economics is, of course, just one of many ideas that are helping places and that will be helping us to build a better world. Other ideas—other narratives resonate better in different places. We’re hopeful and optimistic and we want to see everybody working towards a better world and using whatever works best for them. In order to really shift in that direction, I think we must all be guided by one lighthouse principle, if you want to call it, and that is solidarity. Solidarity not just with our loved ones and our neighbors, solidarity with people in other parts of the world. And not just with humans, but with the whole living world, recognizing ourselves as interconnected with the systems that sustain us.
[slow rhythmic music] So, what continues to give me hope is not just the practitioners working with doughnut economics, but all the many acts of solidarity that are taking place in cities, in villages, in regions all over the world every day. You know, from the protests against genocide, to mutual aid networks, to volunteering, to worker cooperatives, to Brazil inviting the world to a global mutirão at COP and so much more. So, I have hope and I think we all have a lot of reasons to have hope.
David 18:44
Leonora, that’s beautifully put. Gives me hope and I’ve got no doubt our listeners. Thanks so much for—not just for being with us on Cities 1.5 for this fascinating conversation, but for your ongoing work to make real and meaningful change. Thanks very much.
Leonora Grcheva 19:00
Thank you, David. [music ends]
David 19:03
[theme music] Please check out Leonora’s article in the show notes, along with voices from previous seasons and Herman Daly.
Jess 19:12
This episode of Cities 1.5 is produced by University of Toronto Press with generous support from C40 Cities. Want more access to current research on how city leaders are approaching climate action? We also publish the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy. Our mission is to publish timely, evidence-based research that contributes to the urban climate agenda and supports governmental policy towards an equitable and resilient world. The journal serves as a platform for dynamic content that highlights ambitious, near-term climate action, with a particular focus on human-centered solutions to today’s most pressing climate challenges. To read the latest issue, visit jccpe.utpjournals.press or click on the link in our show notes. [music ends]
David 20:01
[whimsical music] You’ve just heard from Leonora about how the work at DEAL encourages systems change at a local level. At the World Mayors Summit in Rio I asked mayors how they can incorporate new economic thinking into policies and actions that change the futures of people and planet. I asked Mayor Sala of Milan, Italy, about how that city became a global leader in reducing food waste under his leadership, and linking the urban food system to climate resilience, to public health, and to economic justice and inclusion. [music ends]
Mayor Giuseppe Sala 20:41
My name is Giuseppe Sala, but everyone calls me Beppe Sala, and I’m the mayor of Milan since 2016. This process started in 2015 with the Universal Expo, and the expo in Milan had a very specific theme which was ‘Feeding the Planet, Energy for Life’. So, after the expo we decided to launch this pact and, actually, we have 330 cities with us.
We have nine hubs in the neighborhood of the city. We recover food which is close to the expiring date. For instance, for a period, we commit to a supermarket or for a period we commit to a restaurant. And the message was, “Don’t throw away the food that you do not sell, you do not use, but deliver to us, to our hubs. In the meantime, we reduce your taxes,” and that worked a lot. So, we recover food and we deliver to the poor people, having double success. Then we are working on public procurement. And again, the target was to buy zero-kilometer food. Because Milan is an industrial city, at the same time in the neighborhood we have still many, many farmers. We try to buy from them to reduce transport and to save and to help them.
Finally, we work to modify the diet of the students. Not animal protein. At the end, the students and the children can be satisfied that we reduced the consumption of meat and in this way we can work on the climate. It’s fundamental to start with the children, because if they are involved then it can create a good process. I’m not against the meat. Honestly, I do not eat meat very often. But it is fundamental to tell everyone, “You can have protein, even if you don’t eat meat.”
David 22:55
[slow rhythmic music] Of course, turning new economic thinking into reality is particularly resonant in the Global South, where young populations need good green jobs. And accelerating urban growth means that incorporating sustainable economic models into urban systems isn’t a luxury. It’s a vital building block to creating a climate-safe future.
Here’s the Executive Mayor of Ekurhuleni in South Africa, exploring the innovative measures his city has taken. [music ends]
Executive Mayor Alderman Nkosindiphile Xhakaza 23:30
I am Alderman Nkosindiphile Xhakaza. I’m the Executive Mayor for the city of Ekurhuleni. Cities is where a lot of waste is produced. We are sitting at 1.5 million households. About a million of those is residential households, about 300,000 is businesses and industry, about 200,000 of that is informal settlements. And we’ll have to then devise strategies: What type of waste management for our industries? For the informal settlements? And we’ll have to, you know, really get a buy-in from our communities. Because while it might be easy to—the program to separate waste at source, you can easily get a buy-in from industries, even from your formalized residents. But in informal settlements, they’ve got a lot of other priorities. The pressing issues is food on the table than to be looking at waste. Pressing issues is shelter. But we have to really put up programs.
We just recently invested in the new material recovery facilities with integrated reclaimer cooperatives. We have to ensure that the industrial symbolism network which match the waste streams, and that is collaborated with Wadeville and Kempton Park industrial sites, and that the organic wastes valorization through composing and biogas generation for municipal facilities. And this really ensures that there’s just an inclusive transition. And most importantly, we have to take on board our TVET colleges to ensure that there’s skilling, there’s enterprise development to train youth in solar, in plumbing, in waste sorting, and sustainable construction. We must take on board vulnerable groups, women, youth-owned SMMEs, to prioritize this green procurement project. And more importantly is equality. As we are in the industrial center, we must ensure that some of our centers around Kempton Park, around Springs and in Vosburg, that we are, you know, reducing emissions and ensuring that we’ve got, you know, healthy facilities.
David 25:52
[whimsical music] And finally, Mayor Schouten of Rotterdam in the Netherlands had some interesting insights to share about how the circular economy and raw material reuse has a direct link to national security and resource independence, which are vital considerations at a time of increasing instability and geopolitical turmoil. [music ends]
Mayor Carola Schouten 26:18
My name is Carola Schouten. I am the mayor of the city of Rotterdam. We created some places inside the city where people can also bring what they don’t use anymore. What is garbage for them, but we can reuse it. And it’s quite popular now. It’s also in what we do ourselves as the city governments, because we also need to be circular in what we use and how we reuse everything. It’s also a strategic issue. It’s not only about climate. Because if we want to become more independent, then we also need to think about the independency of raw materials. And we know it’s getting more scarce and it’s affected also by all the global issues, I must say, the political issues that are going on now. So, we want to become more independent, so then we also need the raw material.
It is important to tell people what the impact is of the climate change, but you also must tell them how important it is to have the strategic independency. Because we noticed in the Netherlands once Russia entered Ukraine and the war started, there was no gas coming from Russia anymore. And our citizens noticed it immediately because the prices are going up and it affects their lives. So, we also have to tell them also how important it is to have the renewables, because you are not so dependent anymore on countries that you don’t know if they are reliable or not. So, it’s also a matter of that we try to close the gap, actually, between the fossil fuel produced materials and the reuse of raw materials. We discuss this also with the national government, how they can act, but it’s—also for us it’s the European Commission is very important also in this way. Because we—I think it’s not only for the Netherlands, but in general worldwide, but at least at the European level, that we have to rethink how we use these materials.
David 28:13
[melodic music] At a moment when national politics can feel like it’s locked into a short-term doom spiral, and when powerful interests continue to push a story of endless growth on a finite planet, some cities are choosing a different path. From the reuse of crucial raw materials to cross-departmental collaboration that breaks old silos, this work is about building economies that are resilient, just and grounded in reality.
As this season unfolds, we’ll hear from more city leaders who are choosing a different path, experimenting, learning and fighting back. Because if the cracks in the system are widening, so too are the possibilities. And like those wildflowers breaking through concrete, the future of our economies may already be taking root right on our doorsteps in cities. [music ends]
[theme music] On the next episode of Cities 1.5 we’re shifting from cities on the front lines of economic innovation to cities on the front lines of climate change denial, and the social issues that walk in lockstep when your city is located in one of the most unequal of all Global North nations. I’ll be speaking to the mayors of Portland and Austin in the United States of America. We discuss how they’re prioritizing climate policies in the face of federal government hostility, what resilience and resistance looks like in U.S. cities and how to stay hopeful in an era of denialism.
This has been Cities 1.5, leading global change through local climate action. I’m David Miller. I was the mayor of Toronto, Canada, and I know firsthand the role cities can play in solving the climate crisis. Currently, I’m the editor-in-chief of the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, published by the University of Toronto Press in partnership with the C40 Center, the thinktank for cities and climate, where I’m also the managing director.
This podcast is produced by Jessica Schmidt and edited by Morgane Chambrin. Peggy Whitfield is our writer and executive producer with narrative and communication support from Chiara Morfeo. Our music is by Lorna Gilfedder. The future isn’t waiting and neither are cities. To learn more, visit the show’s website linked in the episode notes. See you next time. [music ends]
