Cities 1.5
Cities 1.5
Building our way to a cleaner planet: How cities are leading the way
Energy consumed by buildings accounts for almost half of cities’ carbon emissions on average. Because buildings can last over 100 years, increasing their energy efficiency is critical if we are to meet our current global climate goals. To achieve these goals, cities must transition fossil fuels out of their buildings.
Image Credit: Tristan Capacchione
Featured guests:
Frankie Downy is the Head of Building Strategy and Implementation at C40. Through her work, cities in the C40 networks can deliver the significant emission reductions required to assure a cleaner urban future for the planet.
Mayor Valerie Plante is leading her city of Montréal, Canada to transition away from fossil fuels. Under Mayor Plante’s tenure, Montréal has committed to transitioning away from the use of natural gas heating and cooking by implementing bylaw restrictions on its use in new small buildings starting next October 2024.
Links
Municipal Building Decarbonisation Network, New Building Decarbonisation Network, Private Building Decarbonisation Network - C40 website
Seattle is electrifying new buildings despite ruling against gas bans - Crosscut
London continues to lead the UK in reducing emissions from new buildings - Mayor of London website
In New York City, we’re taking bold action on climate with building emissions mandates - C40 Knowledge Hub
Retrofit Melbourne
The Netherlands' Pilot Activity: Dutch 100CNSC Cities Pilot - Net Zero Cities website
C40 Cities South Africa Buildings Programme - C40 website
If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/
Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/
Our executive producers are Calli Elipoulos and Peggy Whitfield.
Produced by Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/
Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/
Music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/
00 I'm David Miller and you're listening to Cities 1.5, a podcast about how climate leaders are driving global change through local action.[urgent music] Energy consumed by buildings accounts for almost half of cities' carbon emissions on average, and around two thirds of this comes from private buildings. Because buildings can last over 100 years, increasing the energy efficiency of new and existing buildings is critical if we're to meet our current global climate goals. To achieve these goals, cities must transition fossil fuels out of their buildings. This requires initiatives such as retrofitting existing buildings and favouring all-electric equipment.[energetic, upbeat music] Improving the energy efficiency of buildings can bring many other additional benefits like reduced energy bills, healthier workplaces, new jobs, and greater energy security. To make these changes a reality, cities and their mayors face different and unique challenges when creating policies for municipal, private, and new buildings. Mayors have varying powers to deliver fossil fuel phase-out in each of these categories by using the law in innovative ways can help deliver these goals. Cities need to focus on collecting and using building energy data to drive ambitious policy development. They also need to enact the vital policies and programs that are needed for achieving zero carbon building retrofits in residential and commercial buildings. Equity considerations need to lie at the heart of policymaking to ensure lower-income groups are not left behind in the transition away from dirty energy, and cities need to encourage owners, tenants, and landlords to take action in building tune-up programs. So, if you can't tell already, it's a pretty big job. Luckily, there are already cities around the world that are leading the charge in decarbonizing their buildings to help show, not only what's possible, but also the most-effective and practical ways to bring about these necessary changes.[light, rhythmic music] I met with Mayor Valerie Plante of Montréal for a live, in-person interview in March 2024. This C40 city is committed to becoming carbon neutral by 2050 and to reduce emissions by 55% from 1990 levels by 2030, and they're fulfilling their promises by transitioning away from fossil gas heating through bylaws for new buildings, amongst other strategies. But first, I speak to C40's own expert on building decarbonization, Frankie Downy. Frankie manages multiple building energy efficiency networks at C40, working with cities to accelerate implementation of energy efficiency measures in private and public sector buildings. But Frankie can tell you about it better than I can... So let's get going.[music continues then ends]
Frankie Downy 03:36[rotary dial telephone rings][clicks] I'm Frankie Downy. I'm Head of Building Strategy and Implementation at C40 and I'm calling from London, UK.[receiver chimes, replaced in cradle]
David 03:35[light, rhythmic music] Frankie Downy is the Head of Building Strategy and Implementation at C40. She oversees the existing buildings related networks at C40, which enables cities to decarbonize their buildings, making them more efficient by shifting away from fossil fuel use. Through her work, cities in the C40 networks can deliver the significant emission reductions required to assure a clean urban future for the planet.[music continues then ends] Frankie Downy, thank you so much for joining us on Cities 1.5 today.
Frankie Downy 04:20 Thank you for having me.
David 04:21 Maybe you could just tell our listeners a wee bit about you and what you do.
Frankie Downy 04:26 I work within our Energy and Buildings team on various projects and networks that support cities to take action to decarbonize all types of buildings within their city in an inclusive and equitable way. So, a key part of that is supporting our three building networks which are really at the heart of what C40 does. It's where cities share not only best practice and innovative and inspiring ideas, but also the lessons learned on implementing ambitious policies, because we have cities taking leading climate action, and sometimes, you know, they can be the first in the world to be bringing in a certain policy, so having a network where they can share the details of policymaking with other cities and learn from others enables cities to replicate and scale ambitious action faster. So, those networks are global in nature. They've made up of around 30 city representatives, and then I also support a lot of other projects and programs, for example that provide technical assistance to cities, as well as looking at building-related elements of city climate action plans that all of our C40 cities have that are aligned with 1.5 degrees.
David 05:36 I want to get into why buildings matter, but first, what are the three networks that we have?
Frankie Downy 05:42 Municipal building decarbonization, new building decarbonization, and private building decarbonization, because these are the key levers and the key areas in which cities work to decarbonize their buildings.
David 05:54 I want to ask you why buildings matter, and I have a particular interest in this because, when I speak about climate issues in cities, people don't seem to have the same sort of intuition about buildings mattering to climate, yet, of course, they matter a lot. Can you talk about why buildings matter, even if they're not a sexy subject like electric cars?
Frankie Downy 06:20 Yeah, so they really aren't a sexy subject, are they?[laughing] And I think this is one of the challenges when we talk about buildings, and you can often get very technical very quickly, as well, which puts people off. But, globally, the operation of buildings accounts for around 30% of total energy use and 26% of total global emissions. So, that is just running buildings every day and, of course, cities are, by definition, where you're going to find a lot of buildings. So then, it's not surprising that buildings are going to be one of the largest consumers of energy and producers of emissions within cities. So in global north cities, up to 70% of total city emissions can be from buildings; that is the heating and the cooling and using appliances. And, even in cities where buildings aren't yet the biggest source of emissions within C40, these cities often have rapidly-growing populations and rapidly-growing building rates to match that, as well as facing increased demand for cooling and increasing demand for other appliances as middle classes grow. So, we cannot meet our climate targets without tackling buildings.
It means two things:first, it means reducing the amount of energy used in the building, including electricity, which remains today mostly generated from fossil fuels; but secondly, it also means getting rid of the heating and the cooking systems that directly consume fossil fuels within a building.
David 07:45… which is often gas.
Frankie Downy 07:45 Yes, which is often gas. So, yeah, in terms of energy efficiency, it means reducing the amount of energy that that building uses, and it goes hand in hand with phasing out fossil fuels. So, that is things like insulation, shading, looking at what's known as HVAC systems—heating, ventilation, and air conditioning—as well as choosing the most energy-efficient appliances. So, that is ideally the first thing you should do. It's genuinely cheaper and it might also reduce the size of any heating or cooling equipment you need. Secondly, when it comes to fossil fuels, that means removing mostly gas or other fossil fuel boilers. cooking facilities—or in larger buildings, things like chillers—that burn those fossil fuels within buildings, because these appliances can never be decarbonized, so we need to replace them with technology that is either currently zero carbon or has the potential to be, so things like heat pumps and district heating. And, yeah, when it comes to which fossil fuels we're talking about, there is still some coal and oil heating but, generally, that is in the process of being phased out already. Gas is much harder and it's not always being phased out. I think people don't realize the demand that buildings have for gas. It's huge. For example, within Europe, the residential sector uses more gas than any other sector in Europe by 40%.
David 09:06[driving music] Wow. And, that can technically be phased out today. We have the technical means to do it?
Frankie Downy 09:13 Those technologies exist. The energy efficiency insulation materials, they've been around for a very, very long time, so a lot of the technology to get us there—or at the very least get our buildings net zero carbon-ready—is all there ready to go.
David 09:27 Can you talk a bit about how cities get us to this stage of having buildings use dramatically less energy or be decarbonized when lots of the buildings aren't within their jurisdiction? What are cities doing, including the cities in the C40 networks you mentioned, and what powers do they have to actually make this change happen as rapidly as science says we need?[music fades out]
Frankie Downy 09:53 Yeah, well, cities have lots of different ways that they are working with buildings and, as I mentioned, we focus our key building networks around the three different areas because they reflect the ways that cities work with buildings. So, municipal buildings, obviously, that's where cities have the most power of who has control, so these are buildings that they own and operates, so it's a huge opportunity for cities to lead by example, to test ideas or new technologies in their own buildings, although some challenges that they can face are that the way cities are structured means that not all that data and information about the energy use in buildings is centralized, and that lack of coordination can sometimes create disincentives. So, for example, if the education department own the school buildings, but then another department is in charge of maintenance and upkeep, another department pays for the energy bills, it can be hard to coordinate that centrally to deliver a retrofit project where everyone is incentivized and it can run smoothly. It tends to have been overcome, to some degree, in the global north cities, but you do see, as cities get more advanced in what they're trying to do with their buildings, they are still coming up against some of these challenges. In terms of other levers that cities have, looking at new buildings, so that's another area where cities typically may have a high degree of control. Sometimes, they have power to write their own building code, so then they can either directly or indirectly ban fossil fuels. But, even if they don't, they may still be responsible for enforcement of national code or have power over planning codes. And, although some cities can face pushback from developers who are worried about cost, there are considerable savings to be made by not connecting to gas pipelines. And then, privately-owned buildings, that's obviously where cities have the least power and where the majority of emissions are, so it's a really big challenge. But, there are huge opportunities for cities to incentivize or to mandate, convene and communicate to drive building decarbonization, and there are already many in the private sector who are very progressive, who are already decarbonizing their buildings, both companies and individuals. So, finding and working with them can really help cities. And cities don't just work in silos; they work holistically across these areas for the best ways to decarbonize their buildings, and one approach where they are particularly well placed is delivering neighbourhood-scale decarbonization. So, this works well when it comes to gas phase-out, because gas networks will need to be decommissioned in a managed way, area by area. It can also work well for energy efficiency measures which can be aggregated together and delivered in bulk to bring down costs and allow cities to target their engagement and outreach. And, it means cities can prioritize this engagement and action in those areas that are most at risk from climate change. I think the US have a nice term for this– "environmental justice communities". Some cities also own their own utilities so, in this instance, they could work with a utility to deliver decarbonized heat to buildings. But of course, buildings aren't just, you know, the bricks or the stone that they're built from; this is people's offices, homes, communities. So, in that sense, buildings really do touch on everyone's lives, but that also means there's a lot of ways that cities can use to connect with building owners or tenants and work with other city departments to drive building retrofits, so, for example, through a social department, health, air quality, workforce development, or resilience.
David 13:22 Can you give a couple of examples of those kinds of things being done well?
Frankie Downy 13:27[urgent music] Yeah, absolutely, and I worry it's more than a couple. There were so many good examples of how cities are doing this but, yeah, cities using a wide range of powers to phase out fossil fuels. Where they have most control over their own buildings, they can directly bound fossil fuels. For example, last year, Boston passed an executive order to eliminate the use of fossil fuels in all buildings that are newly built or undergoing major construction. Montréal have committed to phase out gas in all city buildings by 2030. But, they can also look at indirectly reducing fossil fuel use by running their buildings on 100% renewable energy. Melbourne, has been doing this since 2017, using a power purchase agreement where the city agrees to directly purchase electricity from a renewable energy generator, and they're also transitioning all their city assets away from fossil fuels.[music fades out] On the new building side, again, depends a little bit on the city's powers. If they have control over their building code, they can directly ban fossil fuel. That's something that Seattle has done, going above national codes to eliminate the use of fossil fuels for most space and water heating in large commercial and multifamily buildings... again, alongside energy efficiency requirements. But, even when cities don't have direct power of their building codes for new buildings, they can use other powers. So, London is using its planning and development powers to require developers to make higher carbon savings and the national requirements. And then, you don't even need to have any powers at all. Sydney don't have powers over building code or planning policy, but they still developed a performance standard for net zero-energy new buildings, and then they advocated successfully at state level for it to be introduced in the planning system. Then, we can get to privately-owned buildings, which is where cities really have to look across the governance spectrum to see how they can influence private building owners to phase out fossil fuels.
David 15:21 I think it's important to have an example or two of how cities have used their influence, regulatory authority, bully pulpit over the private sector so that listeners can understand the mechanisms and what's possible. But, you know, the examples you've given are pretty inspiring about really bold, immediate short-timeframe action to make a difference. How are they leading in the private buildings area?
Frankie Downy 15:45 This is where they really do have to look at all of the different powers and ways that they can influence private building owners. So, where they can, cities are bringing in regulation. We know the voluntary policies have not delivered the change needed quickly enough. Most policies look at the building holistically, targeting both energy efficiency measures, as well as removing fossil fuels, and they do this by setting an energy or emission target to reach. So, these policies are generally known as building energy performance standards. The first city to do this was Tokyo, way back in 2010, before people were even thinking about this. They required buildings with the largest energy use in their city to reduce their emissions, so they set an emission reduction cap threshold that gradually ratchets down every five years. So, theirs is a cap-and-trade scheme so buildings are able to trade if they don't meet the requirements, but almost all of them do because the scheme has been so successful. And since 2008, we've seen a huge increase in the number of cities working on, or passing, these building energy performance standards, particularly in North America, where cities typically have more powers to do so. The second city in the US to do this in 2019 is New York City and I want to highlight them and their Local Law 97 because this policy is particularly impressive because of the scale it's operating at. It's requiring 50,000 of the largest buildings to reduce emissions--
David 17:15 50,000 buildings?
Frankie Downy 17:16 50,000 buildings. I mean, I know New York [chuckles lightly] is big; it's about 8 million population-wise, I think. That it is a lot of buildings, and these are both multifamily and commercial buildings, and some of them are affordable housing too. So, they have to reduce their emissions 40% by 2030, and to net zero by 2050. So, similar to Tokyo, it has these five-year periods for building owners to meet an emission reduction target. But, yeah, Tokyo and New York both have building code power to bring in these requirements, but not all cities have that and I think this is where cities are starting to be really innovative. So, Boston, for example, did not have power over building code. Luckily for them, they have Harvard University down the road, so they worked with them to develop a policy that was similar to New York City's but used different city powers to deliver a similar outcome. And, again, it's placing emission limits on the largest commercial and multifamily buildings in Boston. And again, Melbourne in Australia, seeing what all of the other cities around the world, are doing work with their legal team to explore how they could bring in a similar policy and they've just passed their Retrofit Melbourne Plan, and that sets out their strategy for delivering an emissions cap for commercial buildings.
David 18:29 I know there's some models in cities as diverse as Toronto, Melbourne, and Sydney of using the city's influence and organizing capacity to mobilize private sector leadership without really any regulatory instruments. Can you talk a bit about what we've seen on those private public initiatives in those cities?
Frankie Downy 18:52 Yeah, I mean, something all cities can do, and are particularly well placed, is around collaborating and convening. So, yeah, several cities have a model called the Better Buildings Partnership, which works with commercial real estate owners and tenants to drive forward building decarbonization. So, Sydney and Toronto both have this model.[gentle music] London has something very similar with its London Business Climate Leaders Group, and these models can remain in place to really draw lessons from the private sector, share those lessons with building owners who have less resources. All cities can also set up specific groups that would co-design a policy. For example, Chicago's Building Decarbonization Working Group works on their building energy performance policy and includes members from builders and developers, as well as community-based organizations. And, cities can also, as you say, bring together different organizations to provide supports, and they can target it to different audiences, too. So, Madrid have a green office that is dedicated to private homeowners to support them to decarbonize their buildings. But then, there's other models. Washington DC's Building Innovation Hub is geared towards supporting their building owners meet the Building Energy Performance Standard, and Vancouver's Zero Emission Building Exchange is more targeted towards, like, trade and industry, for example.[music fades out]
David 20:18 I find the commercial building sector interesting because it appears, at least from the Better Buildings Partnership angle in Toronto and in Australia, that the commercial building owners, once they realize they can save money over time by decarbonizing, are quite keen to do it.
Frankie Downy 20:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And some of the most motivated companies, you know, really push cities. San Francisco had a Building Decarbonization Task Force where they were really being pushed in by the members to bring their net zero building target earlier. So, yeah, these are often organizations, businesses, that are doing a lot. It's really up to cities to try and utilize that knowledge and that momentum to support those building owners who have less capacity to deliver that.
David 21:09 Well, if you own a building for a long time, you're going to realize the savings, aren't you?
Frankie Downy 21:14 Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a different model, though, when it comes to residential. That's quite a different way of engaging, and I think actually some of the cities that have gone further in this, in terms of residential engagement, are Rotterdam and Amsterdam. So, in the Netherlands, 90% of homes use gas for heating, and then the national government recognized that, so in order to transition away, they realized that local delivery is needed. So then, they required each municipality to develop a heat transition vision and they provided about €5 million for 66 neighbourhoods to do a gas-free neighbourhood pilot, which both Amsterdam and Rotterdam participated in, and there, they had to be much more targeted in their communication and, because this was more of a requirement to phase out the gas network, they had to really give consumers a lot of choice in what they were doing. So, Rotterdam developed the WHAT map and that outlines, you know, what technologies residents could consider moving to as an alternative to gas, and they also produced a WHEN map about likely timelines for gas being decommissioned in their neighbourhood. And, I think they also found they had to have a really personalized approach, at the individual level. But, I think that choice is really important. You know, they gave people choice over as much of it as they could, like which technology they should choose, when to be disconnected. Is it in two years or is it in five years? Even, like, in a multifamily building, like where the pipe should go, so each resident can make an informed choice and really have ownership over that process. I think cities really have to consider that and it's a very different approach for residential versus commercial, but both are needed.
David 22:56 It does give rise to a question though, because these examples are mostly global north. My understanding is New York's greenhouse gas emissions are more than Switzerland so, you know, their buildings program is of global significance, not just local and it's fascinating that, in Tokyo, when they produce a regulation in a cap-and-trade system, people adhere to the cap and don't seek to trade. I think it's very interesting, culturally. Can you speak to global south cities? What are we seeing there?
Frankie Downy 23:31 Yeah, so although, with your Tokyo example, they definitely experienced pushback when they started bringing the policy in, but they worked with everyone involved and they found some ways to make compromises. But yeah, when it comes to global south, fossil fuels aren't as embedded within buildings in the global south, although their electricity grids are often heavily dependent on fossil fuels. So, the challenge in the global south is twofold: one, designing new buildings that are super energy efficient to avoid increasing reliance on fossil fuel-dominated electricity grids, so, for example, looking at passive design that will avoid or reduce the need for cooling equipment that will be needed because of rising temperatures, and we have supported four of our South African cities to develop net zero carbon building policies for new buildings and major refurbishment, and because of the market size of those four cities, it's really providing a critical mass to help drive market transformation in South Africa.
David 24:26 It's interesting to me because the passive design isn't limited to global south. In the global north, you can learn lessons from that. I think people often assume that the learning goes one way, but it goes both ways, doesn't it?
Frankie Downy 24:38 Oh, absolutely, and I think there's a lot to be learned looking at traditional building design there, as well. You know, buildings have been built traditionally to withstand the heat in a way that doesn't use active cooling. So, learning from that design and what you can do when you're building a new building, which is mostly happening in global south cities, but then how can you retrofit some of that, which is a bigger problem for some of the global north cities. Absolutely. There was a second point about what we need to do in terms of tackling the global south and that is massively expanding renewable electricity capacity to displace the need for fossil fuels, and cities have a particularly important role to play in countries where electricity grids are not delivering enough stable energy to residents, so where there's a lot of blackouts. And, for example, Lagos is one of the many cities pushing to accelerate deployment of small-scale solar PV. And, it's also important because that's where fossil gas is often presented as a transition fuel for countries looking to expand their grids, but the reality is that, obviously, investing in gas infrastructure is going to lock in these countries into systems that are based on polluting and expensive and volatile fossil fuels.
David 25:50 Is that a place where cities beyond Lagos have the ability to make that change, given they often don't own the utility or the grid?
Frankie Downy 25:59 When we're talking about buildings, cities absolutely have the power to be rolling out smaller-scale solar PV to support individual buildings, or to look at mini grids where they can support a community, but the city can do a lot to influence their utilities and their national grids. But, certainly, where they have more power and more control is to support the rollout of that small scale solar PV system, so building level or neighbourhood scale, or things like there's a project in Mumbai where they're putting solar PV on bus stations.
David 26:32[light, percussive music] Through a lot of your answers, you've spoken about equity. Changes to buildings can impact people differentially depending on their economic circumstances. Can you talk a bit more about that? Why does equity matter when we're talking about technical things like buildings and heat pumps and small-scale solar in Africa?
Frankie Downy 26:54 Building decarbonization policies are going to lead to enormous emission savings, billions in cost savings, as well as increasing local jobs, improving health resilience. But, the distribution of those benefits is really contingent on policy design and implementation that is inclusive of communities who are at the forefront of climate change impacts and burdens. Mandatory policies, in particular, face a choice around whether or not to make exceptions for affordable housing, or housing where people are sort of financially burdened. If you exclude them though, or if you make the requirement different, then it means they miss out on the benefits of a healthier and a low-cost home.[music fades out] And, it also risks that they are left behind on a gas grid that will have less and less customers but the same running costs, meaning that bills will likely have to increase to cover costs. So, the other choice is to include those buildings and make additional financial and capacity support programs. So, one city that's done this well is Washington DC. They undertook extensive engagement when developing their mandatory Building Energy Performance Standards. In terms of policy implementation, they've got a lot of support. They've got $3 million a year of funding available, allowing for delay compliance, so there's a lot of ways that they are supporting them, and they also have an advisory board that has to include members from a range of groups like affordable housing developers, and rent-controlled apartment representatives.
David 28:19 So, they included the people who are going to be impacted, from the beginning, to help them design a policy that met their needs, as well.
Frankie Downy 28:27 Yeah, absolutely. And several cities are looking at taking an energy poverty angle, so prioritizing their resource of finance towards those most at risk of energy poverty. Barcelona and London, Milan, Paris, all have—or are working on—an Energy Poverty Advice Hub kind of model that provides residents with advice and support on tackling energy poverty. And, cities should also consider how jobs will be impacted by this transition – you know, the gas engineers or the plumbers and heat specialists who currently know how to maintain and run gas boilers, but don't know how to install a heat pump. Are those skills transferable? Or what other rescaling can the city provide to support people that may need to transition their roles? And here, Boston is a great example. They've got a PowerCorpsBOS is the name of their program that supports workforce development efforts for Boston residents for jobs that reduce greenhouse gas emissions in large buildings to help them learn new skills.
David 29:25[driving music] I take a lot of hope away from what you've said and some very clear efforts, both in the global north and global south, to address rapidly the challenge of decarbonizing buildings, but there's pushback in some places. Particularly in the US, there's been huge campaigns that, really, I think it's fair to call disinformation. They're certainly not very honest around fossil fuel phase-out in buildings. Often, once you scratch the surface, you find massive funding from fossil fuel interests there. Anything you can say for policymakers and their advisers about how to deal with those disinformation campaigns, anything you've seen that works to create really powerful narratives about why people should embrace living in energy-efficient and clean buildings?
Frankie Downy 30:21 There's a stat that I think really sums up where some of this is coming from, with the pushback from gas utilities in particular. So, according to the American Gas Association, which represents gas utilities across the US, the building sector was responsible for 28% of gas consumption, but the revenue from sales of gas in the building sector was 86% of their total revenue. So, buildings is where they make most of their money, so they're fighting hard to keep it and I think you've sort of touched on some of that in a previous podcast, with InfluenceMap, about that this is an existential threat to their business model.[music fades out] There's also definitely some disinformation around narratives for renewable gas and hydrogen, which is all about keeping those gas companies relevant. So, cities are tackling this by keeping their messaging clear. You know, in fact, they're putting in place long-term policies and programs that show building owners in the market their intention around fossil fuel phase-out. That's also why leading with municipal buildings are so important. It can demonstrate the feasibility of solutions such as heat pumps—which is new technology to a lot of people—and the associated benefits. Some cities go further than this. Chicago recently sued six oil and gas corporations and their largest trade association for deceiving Chicago consumers about the climate dangers associated with their products, and Toronto City Council voted to oppose any new power generation proposal that involves increased burning of fossil fuels, including natural gas in the city. And, I think, as you say, cities are very good at talking about some of those other benefits from building decarbonization.
David 32:01 That's a perfect segue to another question I want to ask you, because I think it's really important, from a political perspective. You know, people can envision what they have now. If cities are successful in making this energy transformation and addressing this enormous portion of greenhouse gas emissions in the world, and they're successful in doing it rapidly—science tells us, we've got to halve emissions by 2030. That's not going to happen unless we address the building sector. So, Let's suppose we're in 2035, most of the cities in the world have successfully managed to phase out fossil fuels from buildings—what's that going to look like, practically, in those buildings and for the people who live and work in them?
Frankie Downy 32:46 It's going to make a huge difference. So, buildings would be healthier, there would be less pollution inside and out, and obviously, it's going to make a huge impact to tackling climate change. But, I mean, retrofitting buildings will be life changing for some people. Not only would it dramatically reduce climate-change impacts, but C40 research found out that, if we retrofitted all of the buildings in Warsaw and Barcelona and added renewable energy, then it could totally eliminate energy poverty. We spend 90% of our time indoors—[chuckling lightly] or, at least, that's true in the UK where I'm based—so improving homes, workplaces, schools, community centres, it can have a huge positive impact in terms of mental and physical health, air quality, economic benefits. So, it's going to protect consumers from highly-volatile fossil fuel markets. That technology that we talked about—heat pumps, in particular—can also improve resilience, so people will be able to better withstand extreme heat events, which are going to become more and more frequent and, certainly, by 2035, will be a real health hazard, especially for more vulnerable city dwellers like elderly people or people with disabilities. And, if you're also doing energy efficiency measures, it's going to reduce those energy bills and also reduce things in cold climates like mold and damp, or reduce noise pollution, all of which massively improve physical and mental health. So, it will really transform people's lives. They will have buildings where they can live and work much more productively. They've done studies that it will increase workforce productivity as well as educational learning, if ventilation is improved. And then, one thing I haven't discussed is that these homes would likely be much smarter so, as we phase out fossil fuels from buildings and convert to all electric and as grids convert to renewable energy, we'll need to find ways of managing peak demand and buildings have a really key role to play here, turning off appliances at peak times, doing things like charging EVs or maybe doing your clothes washing at night. And that, in turn, then makes the grid cheaper to run and can help reduce bills even further.
David 34:59 Sounds like a good news story to me, and perhaps some of the mayors who are succeeding are helping people to understand that future is not one to be afraid of; it's one to embrace.
Valerie Plante 35:10[pensive music] It's a nice utopia – [chuckling] all these lovely buildings that aren't cold, that aren't damp, that aren't overheating.
David 35:16 Well, Frankie Downy, I think, with your work and that of leading mayors, it's not a utopia; it's a realistic goal that we can achieve in the near term. I really appreciate you taking so much time today to be with us and talk to us on Cities 1.5. Maybe—just maybe—our listeners will think that buildings are sexy.
Valerie Plante 35:36[laughs] Let's hope so.
David 35:37 Frankie, thanks so much.
Valerie Plante 35:40 Thank you very much for having me.[music continues then ends][light, driving music] This episode of Cities 1.5 is produced by University of Toronto Press with generous support from the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. Want more access to current research on how city leaders are taking climate action? We also publish the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy. Our mission is to publish timely, evidence-based research that contributes to the urban climate agenda and supports governmental policy toward an equitable and resilient world. The Journal serves as a platform for dynamic content that highlights ambitious, near-term climate action, focusing on human-centered solutions to today's most pressing climate challenges. To read the latest issue, visit JCCPE.utpjournals.press or find the link in the show notes.[music fades out]
Valerie Plante 00:00[rotary dial telephone rings][clicks] I'm Valerie Plante. I'm the Mayor of the City Of Montréal, talking to you from City Hall, here in Montréal.[receiver chimes, replaced in cradle]
David 36:53[gentle music] The Mayor Of Montréal has long been a strong advocate for the transition away from fossil fuels. Under her tenure, Valerie Plante's city is committed to transitioning away from the use of fossil gas, heating, and cooking in new buildings, starting October 2024.[music ends] Mayor, thanks so much for speaking with us today.
Valerie Plante 37:18 Well, it's a pleasure.
David 37:19 Why don't we start with why is climate change such a priority to the people of Montréal, to you as mayor, and to the government you lead?
Valerie Plante 37:29 I have to say, I feel quite privileged because, as the mayor, I've been elected, of course, first woman mayor of Montréal, but also with a party with very strong green ideas. But sometimes, you can politically believe in those green changes, but then you need to have the population behind you and ready to take those risks, and in Montréal, people are really progressive. People believe that it's important to make changes for today, but also for the future. So, I was elected with a green agenda, a strong one, and with difficult changes for the population, but people are behind me and I think they are proud now that the city is taking such a big place at the national level, but also at the international level, in terms of the positioning, leadership, so it makes them proud, and I feel really privileged to be the one that can lead that movement.
David 38:22 Well, it is a privilege to have the chance to be in a leadership position, [Valerie laughs] but you still need to lead.
Valerie Plante 38:28 It's true.
David 38:28 I'd like to talk about a specific policy because it's a place that Montréal has shown leadership and that is about buildings and finding ways to decarbonize buildings. This is incredibly important. In most cities, it's the biggest source of greenhouse gases. Can you talk about Montréal's program to cut greenhouse gas emissions in buildings, why it's doing it, and what it's going to mean?
Valerie Plante 38:52 I'd like to start by saying that it was quite obvious for us, when we took leadership, that even though the biggest source of emissions comes from transportation, we have not as much power over how much public transport we can build. We rely on other levels of government and that was very frustrating to me. And then, we thought, "Okay, so what's the second source of emissions?" and then its buildings. And, on that front, we have so much more power. We are in a place where we can put bylaws and implement programs, so we have the ability to do it. And the second element is that we're lucky in Canada, and especially in Québec, because our hydroelectricity is very present, right? It's one of our most important sources of energy. So, based on those two elements, we felt like it was time to ask our citizens, but I would say mostly in the future, any new building will have to be energy efficient, but also carbon neutral, so no more fossil fuel whatsoever. It has to be clean energy now that we will be using in small and big buildings for the future, as we're also putting programs to support older buildings, as well.
David 40:03 The policy to restrict fossil fuels from new buildings in the North American context is a very important one. We have listeners all over... well, all over the world, but all over North America [Valerie laughs] and there will be people in cities—in the United States, in particular—saying, "How did they do that?"
Valerie Plante 40:24 Mm.
David 40:24 I understand, from your staff, that Montréal used some general environmental powers that it has. It was a normal. city bylaw and rule to say, "You can't build polluting buildings in the future."
Valerie Plante 40:36[driving music] That was the idea. Again, the fact that we felt like it was time, and so we decided to sit down with the energy companies, like the ones that distributes energy. Here in Québec, it's Hydro-Québec and Énergir, and we decided to partner with them and come up with common objectives, and this is probably one of the key elements in this, is that we didn't move solely on our side. We decided to work with the entire ecosystem, including the energy distributors to come up with a road map, objectives, and ways to move forward in a way that would function for everybody. So, of course, we're starting with new buildings, starting now. So, this year, all new buildings will have to be carbon neutral, so this is huge. This is huge for us. But, I feel like the ecosystem is ready, not only working with the environmental groups, which of course are behind us, and civic society is behind us, but working with the builders, constructors, promoters, and energy distributors was key in there.
David 41:37 So, that's an interesting approach because the gas companies, in particular, are known, I think it's fair to say, [Valerie laughs] for resisting these kinds of changes.
Valerie Plante 41:47[music continues] Yeah, I mean, I understand why. I mean, it's different models. But, I like to say this often to them, they have their business model as a city, I have my business model, and, for me, it's about how do we reduce our emission as much as possible. We have the objective to cut by half our emissions in the city of Montréal by 2030 and to be carbon neutral by 2050.[music fades out] There is no time to waste on that front, and again, I feel like because we have hydroelectricity, we're in a better position, so I definitely understand other cities in the United States, for example, my neighbours, where they may not count on that source of energy that is more sustainable. But, at the same time, those choices are necessary. The idea is to share, communicate, again having a road map, and these are definitely tools that I would love to share with any city that is interested in moving forward with that.
David 42:43 One of the interesting things, from my perspective, is that Montréal didn't need special powers or special legislation.
Valerie Plante 42:47 Yeah, we did. And, of course, the companies were a bit worried about how we would move forward, but we also worked with the government of Québec, and now they're going to be moving with something similar in the near future. And there's tons of cities in Québec that want to do the same, so I feel like, as a metropolis, for me, that's also a role of a big city, because I have more means, I have the population behind me, so how do I lead the way and share the tool and the advantages of doing that for the other smaller and medium-sized cities, as well?
David 43:19 Interesting to me that the province of Québec is imitating Montréal.
Valerie Plante 43:23[laughs] Well, I mean, I would say, like we decided to banish usage of plastic and we're the leaders in the in Québec and now, I mean, there are other cities, and the province of Québec is also thinking about doing it. And then, the Government of Canada moved it after us. It's different, but I mean, I think, really, what, for me, being part of the Steering Committee of the C40 is also about making sure that we are bold and we lead the way. It's very important – by example.
David 43:51 Can you talk a little bit about old buildings? Where there are insights gained from the process, from the partnerships you built on the new buildings that are going to help the city address existing buildings?
Valerie Plante 44:05 Yeah, I mean, it's a good question because while we have, I mean, the city of Montréal, even just the city itself, we own so many buildings and most of them are older, and so they're not efficient at all. We also have a map or objectives of making them more energy efficient, and then also how we will support citizens in their own homes if they want to make changes, and too, so there's incentive – financial incentive. But the bylaw, itself, is really strict though, and this is where for me it's something that the city can use and should be using is there is a law and now there's going to be inspectors making sure that new buildings, we know how much they will consume, what source of energy they will be using.[driving, pensive music] If they want to get their permit to build, we need to have that information and we will be checking on it. So, not only do we have objectives, but we're putting the means to make sure that it will be respected.
David 44:56[pensive music] Well, those are really significant lessons for others to take, so thank you very much for your leadership and Montréal's leadership[Valerie chuckles] in solving a problem that's a huge challenge and a big part of the challenge. Mayor Plante, I appreciate, as a Canadian, your leadership on the local stage, the national stage, and the international stage. It's very much appreciated and has a major impact, so thank you so very much.
Valerie Plante 45:20 Well, thank you for having me. It was a pleasure as always.[laughs]
David 45:23 Merci, Valerie.[music continues then ends][energetic, upbeat music] We already know that cities are essential frontline champions in the climate crisis, and that's because there are some changes that can only be made by cities. Promoting clean energy-efficient buildings drastically reduces the carbon emissions of the urban fabric of our cities, but we need the policymakers and the inhabitants, alike, to align in this purpose so that decarbonized building is not just encouraged, but incentivized. The fate of more than just cities—in fact, the whole world—depends on. It's a tall order, but there are leaders like Mayor Plante and the city of Montréal, who are already proving to be a shining example. With the support of organizations like C40, cities all over the world can be supported to succeed in their own unique decarbonization journeys.[music continues then ends][Cities 1.5 main theme music] Next time on Cities 1.5, I speak to two Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy contributors with recently-published articles on wellbeing for cities in the latest edition on Ecological Economics. Rachel Laurence is the Deputy Director for the Centre for Thriving Places, and Amanda Janoo is the Economics and Policy Lead at the Wellbeing Economy Alliance. We discuss how systemic economic change, led by cities and from the ground up, is not just possible, but also preferable for the wellbeing of both people and planet. You won't want to miss it.[Cities 1.5 main theme music] This has been Cities 1.5, leading global change through local climate action. I'm David Miller. I was the Mayor of Toronto, Canada, and I know, firsthand, the role cities can play in solving the climate crisis. I'm the Editor in Chief of the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, published by the University of Toronto Press in collaboration with the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy, where I'm also the Managing Director. C40's mission is to help our member cities halve their emissions within a decade, while improving equity, building resilience, and creating the conditions for everyone, everywhere to thrive.[music continues] Cities 1.5 is produced by University of Toronto Press in association with the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy and C40 Cities. This podcast is produced by Jessica Schmidt, and our executive producers are Peggy Whitfield and Dali Carmichael. Our music is by Lorna Gilfedder. The fight for an equitable and resilient world is closer than you think. To learn more, visit the show's website, linked in the episode notes. See you next time.[main theme music continues then ends]
